Publishing with She Writes Press

Author Mary Camarillo discusses her experience with She Writes; plus banned book news

Hello Friends!

Several kind people reached out to me this past week with messages of good will. Thank you! I think the ‘endless’ headache has finally departed. I have a lot of important info this week, so if your reading time is limited, don’t forget that you can listen to the audio! Part 1 is about hybrid publishing. If you are a reader but not a writer looking to publish a book, feel free to go to Part 2 on book ban news and cults.

One aspect of Be a Cactus is looking at small press publication. I’ve talked about some small presses I like and what the experience of publishing with small presses has been like for me. I haven’t yet discussed hybrid publishing because I have no experience with it. But I've been thinking about it recently as a possible pathway to publication for my future work.

As often happens, when I think about something, I start to see information about it. One of the things I read on Substack was Brooke Warner’s post “Debut Fiction: Does Age Matter?” 

If you haven’t read it, do. While admitting to unicorns (Lessons in Chemistry was written by Bonnie Garmus, who turned 65 just before the book debuted), Warner shows how unlikely it is for an author to debut with a traditionally published book if she is 45 or older. She concludes “I would argue that making it past the gate requires a mix of the following: hard work; talent; and (by and large) being under 50.”

Warner is the publisher of She Writes (for women authors) and SparkPress, both hybrid presses. Much of the fiction she publishes are “beautiful books” by women over 50. “It's freeing to make decisions based on the quality of an author’s writing alone, and not to be burdened by what the marketing department requires—star quality, that “it” factor, or that potential hypervisibility that acquiring editors are hoping for when they sign debut fiction authors. This is the reality of the modern publishing world.”

She Writes Press was the first hybrid publisher to be named Independent Publisher of the Year (2019). Their explanation of their model:

Unlike self-publishing platforms that publish whatever comes through regardless of quality, SWP is a curated press that works with authors to ensure that their books will be well-received in the marketplace. Unlike publishing houses, which buy the majority stake in your book but often don’t deliver when it comes to providing the editorial and marketing help you need, SWP gives authors an experienced editorial and production team, while allowing them to retain full ownership of their project and earnings.

As it happens, I know someone who has been published by She Writes Press. Mary Camarillo is the author of The Lockhart Women (2021) and Those People Behind Us (2023). I thought it would be fun—and educational— to hear from someone who has experience with them. I interviewed Mary by email.

Mary, thanks for being willing to share with Be a Cactus subscribers! I enjoyed the Southern California vibe and settings of your books. However, the issues in each are universal or, in the case of politics, at least national. Would you like to describe a bit about your books? What was the pitch you used when you queried She Writes?

Both of my novels are set in the city where I live, Huntington Beach, California, although I tweaked the name to “Wellington Beach” in my second novel. My stories are about the Southern California that I know, that doesn’t include celebrities or extraordinary wealth. My characters work at the post office, the gym, or the real estate office. They shop at Target and think a night out at The Cheesesteak Factory is pretty special. They don’t own ocean front property but they do enjoy living ocean-adjacent. 

My characters are often described as not all that likable. I agree but I also argue that they are very human and I hope that my readers find something familiar and something to root for.

For my first novel, The Lockhart Women, I submitted the first 50 pages of the novel to She Writes Press and was accepted as a Tier 1 author, which meant they believed my novel was ready to go. I also had to provide chapter summaries. I was pretty thrilled to be accepted. I’d been querying agents for this novel for more than a year. Some agents never responded. Some rejected me immediately. Some wanted to read more pages, said they liked my voice and my work, but they didn’t believe they could sell the novel.

In hindsight, I understand why. Books are expensive to print and distribute. Publishers want a guarantee on their investment. And as Brook Warner pointed out in her post “Does Age Matter,” I’m an older author (72 now) with no platform or celebrity. But I’m also stubborn. I really wanted this book out in the world. I find it incredibly sad when other authors tell me they’ve gone through a similar process and just put the book in a drawer and given up.

She Writes touts the fact that their books can get professional or traditional reviews, which is not the case for self-published books. As a former librarian, I know that library book selection depends on professional reviews. I used to use Booklist, Library Journal, School Library Journal and Kirkus. (I took Kirkus with a grain of salt. They could be unnecessarily derogatory.) I think these four are pretty standard. Were your books reviewed in trade publications and, if so, did any of the four I’ve listed include your work?

She Writes Books are eligible for reviews but it is up to the author or their publicist to submit the book for review. I submitted both of my books to Kirkus for review, somewhat nervously because I’d heard about how snarky they can be. It’s also expensive, around $500, although they offer discounts occasionally. I didn’t get a starred review, but I did get pull quotes that I was able to use as blurbs and for publicity. 

Unlike self-published books and books from small indie presses, She Writes has a distribution channel through Simon and Schuster. This is vital to having books land in bookstores and libraries. Have you seen your novels in either of those places? Have you been able to have book events (such as a book launch, reading and signing) in either? Do you feel that you have a relationship with local book providers that you wouldn’t have had if you’d self-published?

She Writes Press recently switched to distribution through Simon and Schuster. The transition has been very rocky so far. They are working to resolve the problems, but even though there is plenty of inventory in the warehouses, my books are not currently available through all the channels. I’m frustrated. 

Prior to the switch, She Writes Press used Ingram, which meant that our books were available at all the usual online sources as well as in libraries and in bookstores. I anticipate that this will eventually be the case with Simon and Schuster. My local Huntington Beach library carries both of my novels. I’ve also seen them on the shelves of local bookstores like LibroMobile in Santa Ana, Vroman’s in Pasadena, Arvida Books in Tustin, and Barnes and Noble in Huntington Beach.

I did both of my book launches at LibroMobile and I’ve had book events at my local Barnes and Noble and at Bel Canto Books in Long Beach. I also did a really fun book tour for my second novel through California with stops at The Book Jewel in Los Angeles, The Bookworm in Camarillo, The Book Loft in Solvang, Books Inc. in Campbell, Ruby’s Books in Folsom, and East Village Bookstore in Sacramento. We made a great road trip out of it, visiting friends and family, and taking in some concerts and museums.

I made a point of establishing relationships with local book providers before my books were published which helped in getting my books on their shelves. Even if a book is distributed by Ingram or Simon and Schuster, there are still some bookstores (like Book Soup in Hollywood) that prefer that the author consign the books. I’ve experimented with that. Consigning is more work but still doable and is also an option for self-published authors.

She Writes has an in-house marketing and publicity team (through SparkPoint Studio’s publicity company, BookSparks) that SWP authors can choose to utilize. What does it mean to ‘choose to utilize’ their marketing? Is there an extra fee? If you used their marketing, what did they do for you? 

She Writes Press strongly encourages authors to hire a publicist and they provide a list of suggested publicists. I used the in–house BookSparks for my first novel. They were expensive three years ago and I’m sure the prices have increased. Three years ago, BookSparks offered packages ranging from $5,000 to $20,000.

I chose the $15,000 package. It included pitches for reviews and interviews in traditional print and online media, including major newspapers, magazines, radio, and TV. Thanks to BookSparks, I was mentioned in the Hollywood Reporter. BookSparks also pitched a few essays of mine and placed a few in small online publications.

I knew absolutely nothing about publicity when I first published. I didn’t even know what to ask or expect from a publicist. I learned a lot with my first book and realized that much of what BookSparks was able to do for me I could have done for myself. I consider the funds I spent on BookSparks as a crash course in publicity. I’m not sure that anyone at BookSparks actually read my first novel because whenever I did get a publicity hit, it said that the book was set in San Diego.

So, I decided not to use BookSparks for my second book. I researched the other suggested publicists but some of them considered my second novel too “political.” I decided to use a small a la carte publicity/marketing firm for a few months. I spent around $5,000 with them. They mostly set up a few book events and did social media stuff for me, which was helpful because my father had just died and I had a lot on my plate.

I only used them for a few months though. Since August of 2023, I’ve been on my own with publicity and marketing efforts. I was able to get interviews with the LA Times and the Southern California News Group on my own. I’ve learned to promote myself (definitely something out of my comfort range three years ago.) I pitch essays, panels for book festivals, and podcast interviews and have managed to keep a small amount of buzz going even though my second book is almost a year old now.

Authors from She Writes press have won a number of indie publishing awards, and you are among those winners. Could you brag a little for us and tell us about your awards?

I’ve had some success with book awards, which has been very exciting. The Lockhart Women won the 2021 First Place Award in the Next Generation Indies for First Fiction. It was my first award and came with a very shiny gold medal and a check for $100. It also won the 2022 Indie Author Project Award for California Adult Fiction, which included an invite to the ALA convention in Chicago last year and a check for $1,000.

Those People Behind Us was shortlisted for the 2023 Hawthorne Prize, was a Finalist in the 2023 American Book Awards for General Fiction, and a Silver Medalist in the 2023 Independent Book Publishers Association Benjamin Franklin Award for General Fiction. My husband and I had a great time going to the award dinner in Denver this year. 

I’m in the process of selecting the book cover for my novel Keep Sweet. Of the cover mock ups from the artist, I really like three very much and am having a hard time deciding! This makes me wonder what your experience was like in selecting your covers. 

Covers are so important. The image has to be compelling even in a tiny one inch square online, because that is how many readers will find a book. An advantage of working with a hybrid press is that the author is allowed more control over the cover design and book title. I’ve heard that in traditional publishing, that isn’t always the case.

With The Lockhart Women, the original cover design ideas were to tap into the OJ Simpson trial theme and use a white Bronco on a television screen. But the book isn’t about Simpson, it’s about a woman who gets hooked on watching the trial instead of dealing with the disasters in her life. The next cover design suggestions were more typical LA type themes which looked too Hollywood for me. The book isn’t about Hollywood. It’s set in Orange County. I did a deep dive into Shutterstock and found the image we used for The Lockhart Women. I loved the grittiness of it.

One thing I wish I’d considered for my first book is that I’d paid more attention to the spine design. It needs to be very readable. The spine of The Lockhart Women is a bit too dark. I’ve had problems finding it on bookshelves.

With Those People Behind Us, I originally resisted the cover design presented to me. It looked too “desert-y.” But one day I was walking in the Bolsa Chica Wetlands and looked up at the adjacent housing tract and realized that the cover was actually perfect. And the spine is perfect too!

Publishing with She Writes appears to have a basic cost of $10,000. This includes proofreading, interior design, cover design, ISBN, distribution, and warehousing copies for one year. However, if editing the manuscript is necessary, it requires an extra fee. I know people don’t like to talk about money, but understanding the financial aspect of hybrid publishing feels important. In addition to the $10,000 publication package, did you have any extra fees? Is there a fee to submit your manuscript, and if so, is it credited toward the 10K if your manuscript is selected? Have you been able to recoup your investment? In financial terms, has the experience been worthwhile?

The basic cost has increased dramatically since I first published with SWP. Each of my novels had a basic cost of $7,500. SWP used to “grandmother” the price for repeat authors but that is no longer the case. I was accepted as Tier 1 for both novels, so I wasn’t required to pay to have the manuscripts edited. There was a $25 fee to submit the manuscript and it was not credited to the total amount due.

There are a great deal of additional expenses. The biggest ones are for printing charges, which will vary depending on the size of the book. As an example, the print run for 1000 copies of Those People Behind Us was $3,700. There are shipping costs as well. For example, I recently had 32 copies of Those People Behind Us sent to my home for an upcoming book fair and paid $52.00 for shipping.

One of the characters in Those People Behind Us is a realtor. Images of the newsletters she sends out to the neighborhood are found throughout the novel. This is the special formatting that cost an extra $500 that Mary mentions below.

There are various miscellaneous charges that add up. None of these were required by SWP, but they were things I felt like I needed to do, so the costs might be of interest. I included real estate newsletters in my second novel that required designer fees of $500. I paid $150 to have someone help me identify comparable titles. I paid $280 to have Amazon + graphics created. I paid fees to enter contests, in amounts ranging from $25 to $150. I paid for the postage to mail books to these contests. I paid $2,500 to have an audiobook created. I paid $60 to relicense my cover for the audiobook. I also paid to have a website designed and maintained.

These Amazon graphics are on the webpage where Those People Behind Us can be purchased. This costs $280.

One thing to know about the world of books that I didn’t realize is that bookstores and Amazon shoppers can return books whenever they want. When books are returned, sales are reduced and there is also a return fee that is passed on to the author.

There are also inventory storage charges, once books are not selling as rapidly. You can either pay for storage, pay to have the books shipped back to you, or have them destroyed for free. Since we’ve recently transitioned to Simon and Schuster for distribution, they are waiving storage charges for a year and I’m not sure what they will be after a year.

Have I recouped my investment? There’s always hope! I continue to receive small royalties. I’m in a fortunate time in my life where I have a good pension and don’t need to make money from my books. But honestly, I doubt I’ll recoup my investment unless my books get optioned for a movie or television deal.

I realize my privilege in saying this, but what’s more important to me is the connections I’ve made with readers. I just led a wonderful discussion about neighborhoods with 24 engaged, lively folks who had read my novel at a luncheon at the First Congregational Church in Riverside.¹ Last week I was a guest on a podcast hosted by students at Irvine Valley College who had all kinds of questions about writing and publishing and were happy to hear my advice.²

A reader just posted a thoughtful five-star review on Amazon of my first novel.

Books are not like a carton of milk. They don’t expire!

Since you went back to She Writes for the publication of a second book, I’m thinking it must have been an overall positive experience. Is there anything you’d like to say about that to writers who are considering hybrid publication (or She Writes specifically)?

I’m very proud of both novels. The covers and designs are beautiful. I’m thrilled to have my work out in the world. I’ve met wonderfully supportive writers through She Writes Press.

Communication with SWP is almost completely via email, although there are occasional zoom meetings. Brooke Warner also offers office hours on Tuesdays at 11:00 am Pacific, depending on her busy schedule. SWP has a small staff and a lot of authors and books to support. They publish twice a year. In the Spring of 2025 they have 42 books scheduled. Sometimes staff support can feel a bit impersonal. What is really wonderful is the amount of generous support and encouragement from the other SWP authors.

I’m working on a third novel and am not sure I will publish with She Writes Press again when I finally finish it. I would love to find a small press but as I’m increasingly conscious of the ticking clock of my age, I’d consider self-publishing the next time. I know a few She Writes Press authors who are self-publishing now and love it.

I’m currently very unhappy with the distribution problems, but also hopeful that by the time this is published they will have been resolved. Check back with me! I’d also suggest talking to other She Writes Press authors besides me. Get a firm understanding of all of the costs. Make sure you can afford what you are signing up for. Consider small presses and self-publishing. But if you believe in your work, don’t put it away in a drawer. Get your story out there.

Thanks! Find Mary on Substack at Life with Riley

Part 2: Library and book challenge/ban news

Florida Department of Education releases list of over 700 banned books in K-12 schools from Central Florida Public Media

Over the weekend, the Florida Department of Education released a list of over 700 books that were “removed or discontinued” from districts throughout the state last school year.

That’s an increase of almost 400 books from the list they released a year ago, for the 2022-2023 school year. …

Volusia [County] led with 40 banned books, including classics like “Slaughterhouse Five” by Kurt Vonnegut along with newer favorites like “Looking for Alaska” by John Green.

Florida Freedom to Read Project Director Stephana Ferrell called the list an undercount, and says she’s worried that even according to DOE data, book bans continue to rise in the state.

“A lot of them removed many, many books, including classic literature and literature that regularly appears on the AP exams and prepares our students for college level coursework. We're removing all of these books,” said Ferrell.

Ferrell said a few parents and residents still make up the bulk of these challenges.

“And right now, what's happening is one or two loud people in a particular district can dictate for all what is available, and it runs against, again, what a majority of parents are telling their school districts they want,” said Ferrell.

PEN America found Florida led the country again last year in book bans, with over 4,500 books banned in the Sunshine State, costing districts about $34,000 to $135,000 a year.

School book bans triple in 2023-24 from K-12 Dive

The push comes amid the election of former President Donald Trump, who has railed against “inappropriate” content in schools.

Book bans reached a record high in the 2023-24 school year, with instances of both books banned and the number of unique titles banned almost tripling over the year before, according to a report released this month by Pen America, a free speech advocacy organization tracking the issue. 

The group recorded 10,046 instances of banned books in the 2023-24 school year, compared to 3,362 the year prior.

As in previous years, the most commonly banned books included ones featuring characters of color or LGBTQ+ characters, as well as sex and sex-related topics. Florida and Iowa recorded the highest number of book bans during the 2023-24 school year. 

Jodi Picoult’s ‘Nineteen Minutes’ tops PEN America of books banned in schools from Boston.com

Jodi Picoult remembers when everyone seemed to praise her novel “Nineteen Minutes,” a 2007 bestseller about a school shooting that now tops a list compiled by PEN America of the books most banned in schools.

“Not only was it recommended for young adults to read, but it was on the curriculum in schools where it’s now banned,” the author said during a recent telephone interview. …

Besides “Nineteen Minutes,” books most frequently removed include John Green’s “Looking for Alaska,” Alice Walker’s “The Color Purple,” Margaret Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale,” Toni Morrison’s “The Bluest Eye” and several novels by romantasy favorite Sarah J. Maas. Many of the works had themes of sex, race or gender identity.

Picoult noted that objections to her book centered on a single page referring to a date rape.

“There was nothing gratuitous about it. It’s not porn,” she said. “I think that some people are unhappy because it makes you look at the world in a different way. That’s what’s behind a lot of the bans.”

Alaskan Book Ban Ruled Unconstitutional From Locus Magazine

In an October victory for freedom-to-read activists, the Matanuska-Susinta Borough School District in Alaska has agreed to pay $89,000 for indiscriminately removing 56 books from library shelves.

Most Texas school board candidates who support book bans lost their elections from Lone Star Live

Candidates backed by Moms for Liberty, a conservative group that has pushed for book bans and anti-LGBTQ+ policies across the nation, lost overwhelmingly, Strong said. This includes Brandi Burkman in the Leander Independent School District, who filed a police report in 2021 because “Lawn Boy” by Jonathan Evison was available in high schools. 

In Corpus Christi, candidate Samuel Aundra Fryer received less than 10% of the vote after using the anti-LGBTQ+ term “groomer” in an interview where he also opposed books that “push this whole LGBTQ mindset.” The city’s library board recently proposed policies to restrict minors from certain titles without parental input and make it easier to challenge books.

However, there were exceptions to the anti-censorship voting trend. In the Conroe Independent School District, every school board trustee now has ties to book bans. 

Over the past two years, the district banned more books than any other district in the Greater Houston area. Because 160 titles are restricted in the Conroe ISD, over 2,000 individual books were removed and disposed of in February.

The culture wars in our schools cost us billions from the Los Angeles Times

The Woman Whose Crusade Gave Today’s Book-Banning Moms a Blueprint from Time Magazine

Today, America’s book bans have changed slightly. As literature has expanded to include more stories about gender and racial diversity, conservative women have also adapted their political targets. Whereas Gabler targeted school textbooks, pressure groups and politicians currently focus on literature­ such as Gender Queer by Maia Kobabe, the most challenged book of last year.

Norma Gabler’s objections spanned various topics, and often centered on factual inaccuracies, not just moral debates. Today, bans center entirely on upholding conservative Christian values. Even still, the topics under attack reflect historical antecedents. Books featuring LGTBQ+ relationships are the most heavily targeted, recalling Bryant’s virulent attack on gay rights in 1977.

And whereas Gabler waged ideological battle with the state’s public education system, today’s battles have expanded to include public libraries as well.

Cults 

I sometimes post on cults since my upcoming novel takes place in (a fictional) one. I’m saving most of the recent news for a future post, but this one is timely.

Tulsi Gabbard Has Lauded Religious Leader Accused of Running 'Abusive' Cult from Newsweek.

Former members who don't speak so fondly of the Foundation and others close to Gabbard have said the group's influence could be affecting her political motives, according to the report. People have said the Science of Identity Foundation forbids people to speak publicly about the group, requires people to lie face down when Butler enters a room and even sometimes eat his nail clippings or "spoonfuls" of the sand he walked on, The New Yorker reported.

1. Mary discusses this in her post here.

2. Play the podcast here.